My experience with Colinbus and their CPR30PCB/HF
(and how it took me over a year to get a refund for a machine which never worked and was completely riddled with faults)
Background
I first came across Colinbus, in December 2006. The Electronics magazine Elektor published a feature on the "Profiler" - a cnc milling machine available in kit form. Not surprisingly, this generated a huge amount of interest amongst the readership, myself included since this machine was being touted as capable of milling pcbs.
In early January 2007 I placed my order for a Profiler.
Elektor website: http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/
Colinbus Website: http://www.colinbus.be/English/Index.htm
It wasn't long before questions were being asked on the Elektor forums as to exactly what pcbs the Profiler could produce? At that time Elektor were the only people on the forum who had a machine. Oddly, these questions for the main part were remaining unanswered...
Doubts..
05/03/2007
Doubts began to form in my mind about the suitability of the Profiler for pcb work. So I took the decision to upgrade my original £1,000+ Profiler order to Colinbus's considerably more expensive but dedicated pcb production machine, the CPR30/PCB.
From email correspondence & telephone conversations with Frank Jacops (Colinbus owner) I'd reasoned this was the sensible move, since by paying the extra, I'd have a machine I knew would be able to produce pcbs. How very wrong I was.
06/04/2007
A lot of the problems being aired on the Elektor forums were to do with the Colinbus software. I discovered this software was a 'cut down' version of the software which was supplied with the CPR30/PCB. I began to voice reservations to Colinbus about this & my order but I was assured at great length, that all would be well as you "couldn't compare the CPR30 with the Profiler"
14/04/2007
I advise Colinbus I wish to cancel my CPR30/PCB order
20/04/2007
Following lengthy talks with Colinbus they again convince me that I have nothing to worry about and that I can't compare the CPR30/PCB with the Profiler as they are "two very different machines"
Oh Dear...
09/07/2007
The machine arrives -
- and here's a brief list of just some of the faults when I received it. The problems with the software were so numerous they would fill several Blog pages of their own. Fortunately I did document each error as I discovered it, together with screen shots, purely because I had to argue with Colinbus each step of the way that there were problems.
Here's just a random selection of some of those errors : -
Coliliner "Run time Error 11"
Coliner again, but different error..
Copper Rub-Out error - with extra blobs added top right..
and here are some mechanical ones...
Major Problems - CPR30PCB/HF
1) A "manual" which frequently referred to the Profiler and not my CPR30PCB/HF
Very Strange - I'd expect a machine which (according to Frank Jacops, Colinbus's owner) had sold in the "hundreds" worldwide to have it's own manual.. ?
2) Coliliner software (the routing software) which had so many bugs it was completely unusable.
3) Colidrive software (the machine software) which promptly hung my pc as soon as I run it.
4) The machine was not mechanically true along its y axis. Evidenced by the mirror line being "skew" So double sided milling would be misaligned with no adjustment possible.
5) Play in the X-axis guide rails.
6) Loose Z-axis pin(s) (discovered much later on)
7) The plastic mirror line register strips had been drilled twice (once in error) and shipped anyway, instead of being drilled correctly to begin with.
- and after I received a software "update" I then had these additional problems:-
8) Milling pads produced mis-shapen results
9) There was an offset present when milling the underside layer after flipping the board over.
10) Additional areas on the pcb were being milled in error
11) Coliliner would (randomly) add areas to rub out
So €7,466.32 Euros had purchased me a machine which had -
- Numerous Mechanical problems.
- Software which was so buggy & unfinished as to be next to useless.
And amazingly... through out the entire time I dealt with Colinbus it was a continual, ongoing and uphill struggle convincing them that there were any faults with the machine... I felt that talking with Frank Jacops in particular was like going around in ever decreasing circles. It was only after repeated emailings together with screen shots and sample files would they eventually concede there was a problem... staggering & exhausting for the customer (me)
Typical output, showing numerous errors and area not rubbed out correctly.
This side took over one hour to mill..
++++ UPDATES ++++
A Gentlemen's agreement made...
07/08/2007 Following a lengthy telephone conversation with Frank Jacops. Mr Jacops agreed that if the software problems were not resolved by 17th Aug 07 (in two weeks time) he would accept the machine back for a full refund. If, on the other hand they were resolved by then, I agreed I would keep the machine. I confirmed this by email to him immediately after.
17/08/2007 The problems were not resolved. So in keeping with our agreement I advise Colinbus by email that I was returning the machine for a refund.
20/08/2007 The CPR30PCB/HF is shipped back to Colinbus
They refuse to accept it and I have a very worried courier on the telephone to me. Finally, after several frantic telephone calls, Colinbus agree to take the machine from the Courier. I was absolutely astonished by their behaviour.
and broken.... (by Colinbus)
06/09/2007 Frank Jacops advises me that "...You must understand that there can be no discussion about refunding"
So much for our original Gentlemen's agreement...
Reluctantly, I have no option other than to accept that Colinbus repair the machine and return it to me in perfect working order, this is now nine months from the time I placed my original order and I haven't been able to produce one pcb. Emails to Colinbus asking them to refund the cost of my shipping (Total £206.50) as a gesture of at least some goodwill on their part, remain ignored & unanswered (to this day)
I ask them for confirmation that:
1) The work has been carried out to accurately align the T-table and Y-axis with each other?
2) There is no longer any play in the guide rails & Z-axis pins and they are correctly functioning & tightened?
3) The rub-out now works perfectly and does not leave any random areas of copper behind?
4) The milling of pads is correctly done and no longer produces mis-shapen results?
5) There is no offset present when milling the second layer after flipping the board over?
- especially if the pcb is positioned towards a corner of the copper sheet, i.e where tolerances if any, will be made more visible in a double sided pcb.
i.e in brief, the machine has been repaired and adjusted and thoroughly tested so that it now works faultlessly and will produce double sided boards to a commercial standard
and there are no longer any problems associated with it?
and additionally : -
6) While the machine is being repaired, can they also replace the plastic register strips in the T-table with new ones?
It was around this time that I discovered Frank was chatting with a potential UK distributor for his machines. At this point I decided to carbon copy all of my correspondence to Colinbus with the MD of the UK distribution company which I think, was pivotal in what happened next.
Two months pass by...
15/11/2007 I receive the machine back and the very first problem I quickly discover is that the x-axis is jamming towards the end of its travels. Removing a cover shows the problem, a bent lead screw or motor stand offs of unequal length or possibly both? - see attached video.
I emailed both parties.
.. truly the last straw!
14/01/2008
FINALLY a full refund of €7,644.36 has been agreed after the intervention of the MD of the UK company. Thank you.
The machine is packaged. I incur another £206.50 shipping fee (including insurance) and sent back to Colinbus for the 2nd & final time, (picture top left)
As soon as the refund cleared my account, I purchased a second hand
LPKF Protomat C60 for half the price of the CPR30PCB/HF
The LPKF worked perfectly first time, and every time thereafter, and the LPKF software has also worked every time and has never crashed. The reader may draw their own conclusions...
To this day, I'm still out of pocket for about £412, which is what it cost me to have to ship the machine back to Colinbus twice, through absolutely no fault of my own.
Not forgetting as well, the year I completely wasted with Colinbus.
